"Maybe it was a dream, you know, a very weird, bizarre, vivid, erotic, wet,
detailed dream. Maybe we have malaria."

Dec
22

Is Digg Sexist?

By: Guest Blogger on 12/22/08 @ 11:13 pm


(From time to time I open up the blog to a guest post. Here is a guest post from Elidet.)

Is Digg Sexist? That is the question that has never crossed my mind since I started diggin’.   And honestly – from what I’ve seen so far, the answer is no.

For those who don’t live on the internet, Digg.com is a social bookmarking and news sharing site where users submit content they think others might find interesting, and diggers digg it or bury it based on interest.

rickastley

For full disclosure, I’m a girl who loves digg.  I share what I like and digg what I like.  If I don’t like it, well, that’s why there’s the bury option.  Unless I missed the whiny option, which is what whiner writer Jen Nedeau points out in her article about  how sexist digg is.

She was whining about how her article about the top moments in feminism of 2008  only received 180 diggs in two days, and this must have been due to the male dominated area that is digg.

She doesn’t mention how her list sucked or anything.  No, her list should have made front page because she made a list.

She also doesn’t mention how her article was submitted by a guy……from Texas.

Diggers tend to make friends with other diggers who enjoy the same topics, and I doubt this guy from Texas had a strong female following who enjoyed discussing feminism.

Not only did she act like a stereotypical girl, she is giving me, a female digger, a bad name. Digg is not sexist.  Even I buried her article list for being lame.

On her list about feminism, she listed Sen. Hilary Clinton as number two in the movement, and right below, she listed Gov. Sarah Palin as third.

What a backhanded compliment that list was.  She claims Palin is a strong female for working in politics and raising 5 kids.  She forgot to mention that one of them got knocked up by some self proclaimed red-neck.  And how can you admire a female who took 6 years to finish a four year degree in journalism and compare her right below someone like Sen. Clinton, who lived politics most of her adult life?

The most insulting on the list for the feminist movement was her pick of Sex & the City and how she said it was used as a platform for a voter drive.  If someone needs to watch a movie about using sex to register to vote, do we really want them voting?  I certainly don’t want morons voting.  Do you?

Her list itself probably sent women back to the stone ages more than anything digg does.  I buried it.  Yes, I’m a girl and I believe in civil rights and equal rights, but when you claim to be all about feminism and then sit back and whine about digg, that itself is anti-feminism.  Feminism was meant as a way to be treated equally, and if you want to play with the boys, then you have to play how boys play.
It’s like wanting to be on the boys wrestling team and then saying you want everyone to wear pink because you’re a girl.  Sorry.  You have to man up!

Sure, there have been times when I’ve commented on digg,  when other diggers have referred to me as “he” or a single guy who lives in my mother’s basement playing video games.  That does not mean they are sexist, that just means they thought I was a guy.  I don’t take it personal.  I do that often myself.  I assume most of them are guys.  I enjoy giving my opinions and being dugg, or even buried based on the content of my comment and not on my gender.

What I don’t do on digg is bitch and complain about how digg is being sexist, because that would be, well, you know, typical of a woman.

I’m not typical.  I’m better than typical.  I am smart.  I am not a whiner.  I got through life as a minority not complaining about what a minority I am.  I also got through life as  a girl not complaining how it sucks to be a girl, because it doesn’t.

If you are to make a silly list about feminism and list Obama as number one, then learn from him and stop bringing attention to what a whiny girl you are.  Obama didn’t sit back and complain and bring attention to how black he was or wasn’t.  I’ve never felt threatened by males on digg.  Quite the opposite.  Some have been quite pleasantly  surprised that I am a girl.

I don’t need to tell diggers that I’m a girl in order for me to get a digg on digg.  Heck, I don’t even need to show my boobs to get a digg on my comment.  How awesome is that?

If I deserve a digg, digg it.  If not, bury it.  But I won’t write a whiny article complaining on why I didn’t make front page.

Look, I’m not mean.  From woman to woman, I made a few revisions to your list, Jen, and I think that it will get to the front page next time.   Check it out.

Now, go make me a sammich!

-elidet is a 29-year-old grrrl from port hueneme (US) who joined Digg on November 30th, 2007.

About the author

Guest Blogger

Pointlessbanter.net welcomes guest submissions and we post them throughout the week but mostly on the weekends. To find out about being a guest blogger check out the guest blogger page

74 Responses to “Is Digg Sexist?”

  1. Topeka Stink Pickle says:

    That list of hers is shit. I like it with the bacon over it though.

    Seriously. Sex and the City as number three? A show that reinforces that promiscuous sex and general idiocy is the way to empower oneself as a woman? Yep. That is clearly what Elizabeth Cady Stanton had in mind when she championed the women’s movement back in the 1800’s.

  2. Jen says:

    Hi there –

    Thanks for taking the time to discuss my post. I’m glad you read what I had to say. If it was that un-important to you – then I wouldn’t think you’d have even wasted the key strokes, but you did write a nice lengthy response so I’m glad to make the time to share my thoughts.

    1. Whining. Well that is one word for consciousness raising – which is an actual term feminists use by the way – I don’t think anyone who has ever done anything for the movement would agree with your diction, but if describing the fight for equality as “whining” makes you sleep at night, then so be it. I’d rather “whine” about something than be apathetic.

    2. Sarah Palin. She is not representative of the feminist moments of 2008. Please – go read the post carefully – I did not praise her. Not in the least.

    3. The story isn’t about the numbers or traffic on Digg. It’s about the concept of men degrading women in a public space. The internet may not be a scary place for women like you and I – but it is for other women who would like to use it in a equal opportunity manner. You might want to consider that.

    4. This passage: “Yes, I’m a girl and I believe in civil rights and equal rights, but when you claim to be all about feminism and then sit back and whine about digg, that itself is anti-feminism. Feminism was meant as a way to be treated equally, and if you want to play with the boys, then you have to play how boys play. ” –> This is a contradiction. You can’t claim to want equality but then say it’s okay not to have it from time to time? If you want to make change towards equality – take a few notes from Ghandi: Be the change you wish to see in the world.

    Good luck.

    Jen

    • elidet says:

      Words only have as much power as you let them have. Someone can’t degrade me in public. Just because they can call me a name, doesn’t mean I respond to it.

      Welcome to the internet.

      1. “. If it was that un-important to you – then I wouldn’t think you’d have even wasted the key strokes”

      Did you not see this was a website called “Pointless Banter” and it was under “featured crap of the week”?

      2. How can you ask for equality when you want to be treated different? Talk about contradiction!

      I’m a girl and proud of it. And I don’t need pity from the guys. I don’t get butt hurt over whether I get a digg or not.

      “So quit yer whinin’!”

    • vic says:

      Jen your response is the dumbest thing I have read in a while, I am friends with many feminists and well being treated equally is not always being treated fairly so grow up please, everybody has a tough life not just women. You bitching about how bad something is for women isn’t helping your cause its hurting it, so your post got buried and you cry, how many male posts have been buried or other females who have posted in the past have been buried stop being naive thinking you got buried because digg is sexist, its because your article wasn’t good now ill ask again grow up

      • tectonic says:

        DUDE! Use some god damn punctuation!

      • Maya K. Hess says:

        You are… “friends with many feminists”? And this somehow justifies you saying that people should sit down and be quiet about unfair situations?

        …tell me, do your many feminist friends appreciate your speaking to them as children?

    • Todd says:

      Men don’t degrade women online, we degrade everyone online. This includes ourselves! If you look at the comments I think we actually hate ourselves more than the women that whine, which is quite a feat.

    • Galadriel says:

      Dear Jen,
      Please note that it’s spelled GANDHI and not GHANDI.

      Why did I have to point out a triviality in the midst of a bigger discussion? You want to be noticed, make sure you get your facts right. Then we’ll think about reading and consequently respecting your opinion. Make sure you make sense. And then we’ll digg you.

  3. elidet says:

    @ Jen

    1. “. If it was that un-important to you – then I wouldn’t think you’d have even wasted the key strokes”

    Did you not see this was a website called “Pointless Banter” and it was under “featured crap of the week”?

    2. How can you ask for equality when you want to be treated different? Talk about contradiction!

    I’m a girl and proud of it. And I don’t need pity from the guys. I don’t get butt hurt over whether I get a digg or not.

    So quit yer whinin’!

  4. merri says:

    elidet – great post!! i totally understand what you’re saying about being treated equally. ive gotten into arguments with other women who think that equality means special treatment. i think digg is sexist sometimes though, but it also can be racist, sizeist, homophobic, or any other of those things too. so it probably evens out in the end. i’m a girl and i love digg!! :)

    • elidet says:

      ” ive gotten into arguments with other women who think that equality means special treatment.”

      Exactly!!!

      And I agree that it can be homophobic and racist and so many other things. We just can’t give it power, and Jen here, gave it power. I was fine being a girl on digg, but she brought attention to the fact that I’m a girl.

      It’s like who cares!

      ;P

      • tectonic says:

        Ya if you ignore them, anything they say is pretty much devalued. This just as easily applies itself to when men make more money than you for no reason! I love ignoring stuff. My mom says I should stop huffing paint but with the power of what I like to call the ‘cold shoulder’, problem’s solved.

        Seriously, though, c’mon… you don’t honestly think sexism is just saying mean things regarding your ovaries, do you? I applaud your thicker skin, I really do, but it seems you also have a bit of a thicker head too.

  5. sfdj says:

    The following has nothing to do with digg but you all got me thinking.

    What the hell I’ll stick my neck out and speak for the boys even though I could have hid my sex. I was raised by outspoken feminists and I’ve certainly been around plenty of feminists living in SF and NY. However, I’ve often been shocked by how much what I see as progressive sexuality differs from how others especially feminists see it. My feeling and I’m pleased to see others agreeing with this on here is that progressive views of sexuality should strive for equality of sexes not further separation and the drawing of lines between them. Some feminists would argue that a separate identity for women must be established and strengthened first and foremost but isn’t the whole point that we’re supposed to be deconstructing and erasing these set roles and definitions of gender? Some feminists grit their teeth or outright disagree with me, if they respect me enough to even do that, when I express that.

    We have many minorities in the U.S. slowly but surely gaining some of the power and respect they lacked in the past – especially women. And surprise surprise they’re all acting extremely human just like the white men have. Isn’t that the point? That we all at birth have the same potential for good and bad? To believe that men are inherently more violent even at birth, for example, as many of women AND men have said to me, is no different than saying black people are inherently more hot tempered or men are inherently better leaders, or women are more emotional etc. etc.

    In the end rather than spend all kinds of energy on those who say “my group isn’t getting its fair shake and I’m going to fight for my group now”, I’m much more trusting of those who say “YOUR group isn’t getting a fair shake and I’m going to fight for YOUR group now”. That to me shows that we care not just about ourselves but each other too and about the principle of equality as it affects EVERYONE. Our President Elect could use a page from that book Mr. I’m gonna go ahead and book a homophobic minister since that’s not my group getting bashed.

    • Laura says:

      Women aren’t minorities. They are a slight majority, last time I checked. Sure there is one woman for every ten men at my job. But if you meet me on the street you wouldn’t know that I’m a feminist or a computer engineer. At least not for a while.

    • tectonic says:

      Uh… dude, saying men are the more violent race is not the same as saying Blacks are more hot tempered. There’s been scientifically proven inclinations one sex has the other doesn’t, cross culture. ‘Racial’ inclinations have always shown to actually be culturally driven.

      Anyway men are bred to be more violent because we’re the hunters. I refuse to have that blotted out cause some asshole tried to use it as an excuse for his outrageous behavior.

      Furthermore, you’d rather everyone’s bodies were colored gray, wouldn’t you? Ya, what a fun world that would be.

  6. MKx says:

    I don’t really understand. Guys are harsher on other guys than they are ever on girls, look at all the jokes they make on themselves on digg. Don’t women like that want equality? Or is it a case of “I need to be protected because I am a girl wah wah”. Does she want to censor what those guys even type? Guys don’t complain (or care) about sexist jokes inside “girls clubs” online or offline. She would probably want every one banned? Why such women want to control everything. It rebels people. Sigh

  7. Unknowable or unknown says:

    The original article may have sucked, who cares, I would have dugg it down then too. It seems the woman writing the original article was more concerned with the fact that the comments were disgustingly made by immature little boys. And let me tell you, those comments were indeed disgusting and offensive. I can joke about stuff like that, but when posting like that with disregard to feeling is just a matter of mental shortcomings (perhaps making up for their other shortcomings).

    I was raised in part by my grandparents. My grandmother works full time and her husband is retired. Every morning she pours out cereal in a bowl for him and leaves it on the table to all he has to do is put milk in it when he wakes up several hours later. She also has to make his lunch every day and put it in the fridge, otherwise he will not eat. And who makes dinner? Why she does. Every day, never him. He hates me. Why? Simply because he is sexist. He has beaten me down verbally and mentally so much because of his sexism.

    Now, I am not perfect. Some things I do warrant a good talking to, but on the whole, I am a very good person. I do nothing illegal, I am respectful and I enjoy nothing more than a quiet evening at home with my family. My best friend (who is male) and my husband both are completely astounded at how he treats me just because I am a woman. My husband by the way is wonderful to the man (my husband himself admits he messes up way worse than I and more frequently) simply because he has man parts. My mother gets so frustrated and how my step-grandfather gets with her mother too because it is so evident that the man is so sexist.

    Now I realize it is my grandmother’s fault for being with him. But it is myself who has had to endure so much anguish because of this choice. My grandmother is a wonderful person and so I must deal with the backwards 1700s mentality of her husband, otherwise I would lose the most important person in my life besides my husband and daughter.

    I was in an automobile accident a few months ago and have not yet fully recovered. My husband is not the only one cooking and cleaning. He has always helped me around and has been such a great help while I am recovering. He has no problem doing these things either, and in fact quite enjoys the cooking part. He considers himself a feminist and would never make comments such as those said in the original article. He has nothing but respect for women, probably due to the fact that he was raised by a single mother and not one like my grandmother who bends to the will of men.

    Sexism may not be what it used to be way back when but it is still an issue that should be addressed and not ignored. We have made steps forward, but not nearly enough. I am not one of those people who are activists and voice my opinion often. In fact, this is my first time speaking out on this and may possibly be my last. That doesn’t make it any less important though. It just shows how insane I think this article is.

    Sexism is real. There are those of us out there everyday who have to suffer through it. It’s on digg too. It saddens me when I see comments like that, thinking we are heading towards that again. It’s fine and dandy to joke, but digg is not the place for jokes like that. If you ignore that part, you are just as bad as said posters.

  8. Spankk_Bankk says:

    I love Boobs!

  9. dave says:

    Jen,

    Digg is a machine. That’s all it is. Digg is no more sexist than a hammer or a motorcycle. Would you rail against hammers because men use them more than women? Because that’s essentially what you are doing.

    There are lots of things in the world where there are observable gender differences in how they are used. For instance bras. Are bras inherently sexist? It seems that if you would want to find an example of demographic split you could pick essentially anything. Human beings aren’t robots programmed to do the exact same thing all the time. There will always be statistical anomalies. This is the nature of the things. The silliness of your thesis is only matched by your stridency to defend the point.

    Maybe you should stop looking for examples of sexism when in that process you do much more harm than any purported redemptive value of your trite observation.

    • tectonic says:

      Dave, you’re a moron. Digg has a community, which is obviously what’s being accused as sexist. Don’t insult Kevin Rose’s hard work.

    • Maya K. Hess says:

      …I would rail against hammers if you beat people in the head with them… “Is Digg Sexist” refers to the community, not the algorithms/servers/ideas behind the site.

  10. HÆL0 says:

    LOL at this WHINER Jen;

    It’s true Jen, your list sucks big time, especially if other women say it sucks! On top of that, poor muffin didn’t get any diggs on a website, so THEY MUST BE SEXIST!! Why else would YOUR articles be unpopular? Is it the media? Is it the commenters on Digg? Oh yeah cuz they’re CRAP! You aren’t entitled to be treated nicer, that’s not feminism. Democratically voting articles up or down objectively on Digg is the most non-partisan, equality driven exercise the internet has ever seen, based on the high standards put forth by the good judgement and upstanding character of the Digg community, that gives it it’s popularity. If you need hugs all the time because you’re to ‘fraidy to go outside, then stay home and for the love of all that is decent, don’t turn on your computer, lest Windows gives you an error message and you cry for three days about it with hurt feelings. Feminism is about being strong in the face of adversity, and the great feminist women I associate with all have tough enough hides to deal with a little flak from time to time. Princess needs to learn that not everything is as clear as a sunny Newport day on daddy’s yacht, there’s a real world out there that hurts sometimes…

    Oh and your “example” of rude comments and general behaviour on Digg show a picture of a scantily-clad woman. Now being the good journalist that you are, what kind of audience is that biased toward attracting? DUR indeed!

    Elidet- You hit the nail on the head with this article. It’s so refreshing to see someone rise up against a claim of Anti-feminism when they know it actually isn’t one at all. Big ups for calling it out, because Lord knows if a man like me calls her article crap he’s a knuckle-dragging woman-hater! Hey do you think she sued her journalism professor for harrasment when he gave her a C in fact-checking?

    I’m still laughing about “welcome to the internet!” What a noob Jen must be, to not know that people make rude and lascivious comments CONSTANTLY online, protected by their anonymity. I guess that means the whole entire internet is sexist, over ONE article not getting recognition. But it does show something very important to all women: it shows that even the internet has standards! Dugg for seeing reality and not rose-coloured glasses ;)

  11. Kaimie says:

    Can we see your boobs anyway? =3

  12. silfiriel says:

    It’s not that Digg is sexist, but most diggers are male loosers.

  13. Get a grip guys and girls… I’m amazed that you actually think this is a relavent issue… DIGG sexist? For the love of God you people need to get off your butt and get a hobbie… This post is nothing some advocacy woman trying to do what they do best… WHINE!!!! Get a life…

  14. thegirlchild says:

    1. the original article on feminism was complete and utter crap…Sarah Palin should not be on there at all, and sex in the city is a tv show about women who care too much about their vaginas (for me its “oh hey it’s still there, today’s going to be a good day then)…honestly horrible.

    2. the sites called digg…you have the option to digg or bury…deal with it. i’ve posted things that have been dugg a few hundred times and i didn’t get all sad and pissy. the original poster’s idea was basically, “hey i have peanut butter cookies and i want all of you to eat them, even if you don’t like them…and i don’t give a flying flip if you’re allergic to peanuts you are going to fucking eat my cookies and like them!!”

    3. props to elidet for thinking with her brain and not her breasts, unlike jen. nice job ;)

  15. lizriz says:

    “Words only have as much power as you let them have.” That’s actually entirely untrue. I wish it was true, and I certainly hope you never have to find out how untrue it is, but it’s simply not how the world actually works.

    Closing your eyes to a problem and/or not ever talking about it doesn’t make it go away all by itself.

    • elidet says:

      @lizriz:
      I guess I should explain why I think that words have meaning when you let them.

      I used to get picked on when I was in junior high, so much that I came home crying a few times. Finally, my dad told me that I can either care what people think, or enjoy my life.

      Guess which one I did?

  16. Kyle says:

    I think it’s fairly obvious that Digg is blatantly and thoroughly sexist. As a social environment, Digg is a place where misogyny thrives and is even encouraged by other users who get a laugh from these “jokes” at the expense of women. The truth of the matter is that there is no excusing the general behavior and attitude of Digg users towards women. And I’m not talking about whether women can get their stories dugg or their comments voted up. I’m simply referring to the undeniable fact of an attitude of objectification and misogyny that has been deemed appropriate by the “democratic” processes of Digg. It doesn’t matter if it’s supposed to be funny, if it is supposed to be a joke. It doesn’t matter that in real life some of the males who perpetuate this attitude on Digg are perfectly respectful of women. Digg is a public space, and in such a place these kinds of jokes are never appropriate. As a man AND a self-describe feminist, I would ask all males on Digg to ask themselves the following before they post a comment or story that is less than completely respectful to women. “Would I say this same thing in public without the shield of anonymity, with my own face and voice attached to it, and consider it to accurately reflective of my own, actual attitudes towards women?” If you answer no, then don’t post it on Digg. You know it’s inappropriate, so just DON’T do it. Anonymity is not an excuse for being a bad person. If you would answer yes to that question, then I think it’s clear that you need to take a long hard look at the way you perceive and think about women.

    I think it’s fairly obvious that Digg is blatantly and thoroughly sexist. As a social environment, Digg is a place where misogyny thrives and is even encouraged by other users who get a laugh from these “jokes” at the expense of women. The truth of the matter is that there is no excusing the general behavior and attitude of Digg users towards women. And I’m not talking about whether women can get their stories dugg or their comments voted up. I’m simply referring to the undeniable fact of an attitude of objectification and misogyny that has been deemed appropriate by the “democratic” processes of Digg. It doesn’t matter if it’s supposed to be funny, if it is supposed to be a joke. It doesn’t matter that in real life some of the males who perpetuate this attitude on Digg are perfectly respectful of women. Digg is a public space, and in such a place these kinds of jokes are never appropriate. As a man AND a self-describe feminist, I would ask all males on Digg to ask themselves the following before they post a comment or story that is less than completely respectful to women. “Would I say this same thing in public without the shield of anonymity, with my own face and voice attached to it, and consider it to accurately reflective of my own, actual attitudes towards women?” If you answer no, then don’t post it on Digg. You know it’s inappropriate, so just DON’T do it. Anonymity is not an excuse for being a bad person. If you would answer yes to that question, then I think it’s clear that you need to take a long hard look at the way you perceive and think about women.

    And elidet: WTF? Jen was whining in her article? Are you serious? Let me just say this. As one person to another person, don’t be an idiot. Grow up and try to recognize that we should be concerned with CORRECTING injustices and the prejudices of fellow men and women, and not sucking it up and dealing with an inequitable and unacceptable situation. Shame on you for suggesting that anyone needs to “man up” to an attitude or environment of degradation and complete disrespect. Seriously… WTF?

  17. Lee says:

    Well, What I think Jen fails to realize is that this ain’t no party,
    nor is it a disco
    In fact, it ain’t no foolin’ around.
    There’s no time for dancing, or lovey dovey, there just ain’t no time for that now.

    Okay, in all seriousness, I hate to say it, but there is a parallel to be drawn between this situation and a civil rights situation, such as the gay marriage ban over in cali-fornaye-ay.
    On Digg, there is mob rule. There is equality in that everyone has the chance to post something or say something rad or lame, and then be treated accordingly. The sexist problem comes in that the mob likes things that the she doesn’t, like sexist jokes and pictures of jubilees, and doesn’t like lame list about women in Web 2.0….and shit.

    However, the mob over in Cali also recently decided that they don’t like lame things like dudes shackin’ up and totally buried that shit. Now, the bill of rights, and it’s equality, and all that jazz are there to protect minorities from the not-so-wisdom of mob decisions, and so the courts should step in and overturn that shit, because it truly violates equality.

    But the parallel skewed somewhere, cause that aint happening here. You can still say what you want; people just don’t want to hear it. You still have your rights; just, no one gives a damn. You’re worried about the many treading on the rights of the few, and your rebuttal, by your own logic, is to instead tread on the same rights of those many. How does that work, exactly?

    After looking over this, I’m finding myself none too cogent, so sorry if that doesn’t make sense to you. Stay up a while and you ought to figure it out though. Sleep deprivation is a hell of a drug.

  18. Kyle says:

    I think it’s fairly obvious that Digg is blatantly and thoroughly sexist. As a social environment, Digg is a place where misogyny thrives and is even encouraged by other users who get a laugh from these “jokes” at the expense of women. The truth of the matter is that there is no excusing the general behavior and attitude of Digg users towards women. And I’m not talking about whether women can get their stories dugg or their comments voted up. I’m simply referring to the undeniable fact of an attitude of objectification and misogyny that has been deemed appropriate by the “democratic” processes of Digg. It doesn’t matter if it’s supposed to be funny, if it is supposed to be a joke. It doesn’t matter that in real life some of the males who perpetuate this attitude on Digg are perfectly respectful of women. Digg is a public space, and in such a place these kinds of jokes are never appropriate. As a man AND a self-describe feminist, I would ask all males on Digg to ask themselves the following before they post a comment or story that is less than completely respectful to women. “Would I say this same thing in public without the shield of anonymity, with my own face and voice attached to it, and consider it to accurately reflective of my own, actual attitudes towards women?” If you answer no, then don’t post it on Digg. You know it’s inappropriate, so just DON’T do it. Anonymity is not an excuse for being a bad person. If you would answer yes to that question, then I think it’s clear that you need to take a long hard look at the way you perceive and think about women.

    And elidet: WTF? Jen was whining in her article? Are you serious? Let me just say this. As one person to another person, don’t be an idiot. Grow up and try to recognize that we should be concerned with CORRECTING injustices and the prejudices of fellow men and women, and not sucking it up and dealing with an inequitable and unacceptable situation. Shame on you for suggesting that anyone needs to “man up” to an attitude or environment of degradation and complete disrespect. Seriously… WTF?

    • tectonic says:

      Dude her tone was whiny. I hope nobody’s trying to prove what her MOTIVES were for writing cause that’s rather presumptuous, but her tone was an ear-piercing whine.

      Digg is a democracy — I’m sorry the people in its community don’t share the same ideals as you do. This is the inherent flaw with a majority rule: the majority doesn’t have to be right.

      Now go make me a sandwich. BOOM! Oh man, just jokin’ there fella, just joshin’ you. But seriously, do you have a penis? Kidding, I kid of course.

  19. jaydee says:

    so basically you’re rebutting her “all men are like this” with “all women are like THIS”

  20. Writers Needed- Make $200 a Day says:

    I don’t know about digg being sexist, but I know that digg is biased to companies with big names. For example, I’m starting to notice that the stories that get on the front page is nytimes.com and cnn.com. The same people get on the front page, and this makes me wonder….what the heck is going on? How come they always get on the front page while other people’s stories is pushed down?

  21. Four20 says:

    It’s funny when people think everything they submit should be on the front page. It’s funnier when they whine because it didn’t hit the front page.

  22. tectonic says:

    elidet, I appreciate the sentiment of your article but stating that bitching is typical of a woman is well… sexist. You come off sounding like the female sex is, while not incapable of overcoming it, the weaker sex. Although, it could be just that you’re calling Jen weak, which I would agree with you on.

    The internet is very much a jungle.

  23. Adam says:

    I’m a male, and not being a racist or a bigot, i generally believe there shouldn’t be discrimination over something you have no control over, such as your race or gender.

    But I feel like Jen believes there shouldn’t be discrimination AT ALL. If we couldn’t discriminate between two things, we could never make any decisions at all. You seem to think equality means never being put down or degraded. Talk to any male, you think they will say they are never cut down by another male?

    If you are being cut down, and discriminated against, for your content, not your race or gender, then congratulations! You’ve reached equality!

    Good point though which elidet did miss, you did dismiss Palin as a *good* thing for feminism. I have nightmares about her being president that wake me up screaming…

    • tectonic says:

      See… degradation and ridicule will likely always be a part of our society. If I happen to suggest a woman would be able to get a boyfriend if she got back in the kitchen and stopped fighting back when a man smacks her, I think this is funny. If a woman suggests I’d be able to get a girlfriend if I weren’t totally inept at fashion, or if I stopped trying to get in bed with her on the first date, I think this is funny.

      There’s a large part of ’sexism’ that’s just stupid, baseless humor and I think that’s important to distinguish.

      Also, WOMEN HAVE SMALLER BRAINS THAN MEN! SCIENCE SAID SO! …granted they’re just denser, no better or worse than a male’s, but still… *giggle*

  24. sfdj says:

    Laura please forgive I didn’t mean to call women a minority. That was a bad word choice.

    tectonic males are not a race. They’re a sex. And saying that one sex or one race or one religion or one WHATEVER makes someone predisposed to be xyz is the basis in my opinion for a great deal of prejudice. If you raise a Japanese child in LA they will grow up as a child from LA through and through without any genetic disposition to do one thing or another there except through the influence of their environment. I believe that’s so important in a modern society. To understand that. Were the 60+ some odd congresswomen who voted to bomb Afghanistan genetically predisposed to go to war or was it just their male colleagues? It’s worthy to note of course that the lone dissenting vote on that bombing was a female African American Congresswoman. Oh but wait she was also from California. Maybe Californians are genetically predisposed to commit peace :)

    • tectonic says:

      I’m more surprised she showed up to vote, but then again I’m incredibly racist against Californians so w/e.

      I’d like to know where I suggested males as a race? Maybe I said MAN is a race, which is true. Are you referring to me suggesting men are inherently more violent than women? Anyway, just because something is used as an argument for an injustice doesn’t mean it’s not true. Nietzsche’s writing was quoted and warped by the Nazis after his death, but he, in life, detested the Nazi party. Does this make Nietzsche bad?

      You could say the 2nd law of Thermodynamics suggests life is pointless, and it wouldn’t make the 2nd law any less TRUE.

  25. Primevalatom says:

    Digg is cutting edge democracy at work. How on earth can that be sexist?! The channel is right there for you to have your say. The real point here I think, is that Democratic media such as this enable people to stand up to and expose other people’s sense of entitlement and desire to control others. And in this case, it’s Feminism and sexism together under scrutiny.

    • Maya K. Hess says:

      Jefferson said to never let the majority vote on the rights of a minority. Perhaps it is also true that the majority should not be able to downgrade the status of a minority. (though understand here that women are considered a proper minority within the confines of Digg, and not in the world as a whole)

  26. Maya K. Hess says:

    Look. I didn’t agree with Jen’s original post 100%, as I think that the Digg “Old Boys Club” is probably just about as accessible for a newcomer woman as for a newcomer man–and they have a lot of the power on the website, yeah. What is really ticking me off here is the idea that you are representing anything but anti-feminism.
    Did you see how this article was submitted?
    “Is Digg Sexist? A rebuttal from someone with breasts”
    You really don’t see anything wrong with that? You really don’t see anything wrong with telling women to “man up”?

    You really think “bitch[ing] and complain[ing]” is “typical of a woman”?

    You know what, forget it. You are so clearly a product of our times that I can’t really even blame you. I can’t even find it in me to muster up respect for your position–though note that Jen herself was quite nice about everything.

    But I will blame the Digg community every time something like this happens. I will not excuse them as you try to do.

    And I will not be quiet about anything that deserves discussion, be it prejudice, politics, or the number of Wii sales in the last week.

    • tectonic says:

      Kind of funny how we’ve come full circle, huh? That we have female anti-feminists? The movement’s over guys. Its like me trying to say I’m an anti-federalist. I’m about 150 years too late…

      Also, not to be an ass but you’ve kind of become exhibit A for Elidet’s “women are whiners” ‘argument’. If you ask me, though, men would whine as much as women if it wasn’t so unacceptable in masculine culture. This might be why whiners are ridiculed so much over the net, where gender is less obvious.

    • elidet says:

      @Maya:

      You are clearly so delusional to see that the article was posted on a website called POINTLESS Banter and was under “Featured Crap of the Week.”

      Sarcasm. If you manage to pick up a dictionary that has all the words, not just feminine words, you might be able to understand this article.

      “A reply from someone with breasts” was needed because in the whole entire time I’ve been on digg, I’ve never had to tell people I was a girl. NEVER. So it was added to prove that a girl CAN make front page on digg, like I did….and on my first article, I might add.

      I just don’t cry over every comment like you do.

      I don’t need YOUR validation in society to prove that I rock.

  27. dipperwell says:

    I’m glad sites like Digg aren’t sexist, because that means I never get inundated with messages about my tits, my cooking skills, and how I need to get raped whenever I write some innocuous article about iPods or a software crack or an episode of House. (No, I am not exposing my tits in my picture – they aren’t visible.) I’m glad I can write about domestic violence and not receive a plethora of comments about how I should have my throat slit or how I should feel “lucky” instead of angry. I’m glad there aren’t hordes of fawning comments either; where my points are carpeted over by discussions about how I’d be great to marry, great in bed, great to look at. I’m glad.

    I’m also glad it doesn’t suck to be a girl, because that means I know that people will respond to the content of what I’m saying instead of verbally assessing my fuckability, it means that I’m not likely to be sexually assaulted in the military, it means I’ll make the same wage as a man for the same job, it means I won’t be expected to spend time, money and effort on beauty rituals that would be considered preposterous for men, it means the media communicates to me and my daughter that our self-worth isn’t determined by our physical appearance, it means that domestic abuse and rape and being told to fear walking alone at night carry no weight, it means that my gender is equally represented in government and positions of authority…I really am glad it doesn’t, sometimes, suck to be a girl.

    What else am I glad for? I’m glad that women have to play like boys to succeed. I’m glad we have to “man up” to be respected. I’m glad that “playing like a girl” or “acting like a woman” are devalued and disrespected, because let’s face it – men are better players. We need to up our game! We don’t want to be those typical, average women who go around bitching and whining – no, we want to be like you. Smarter than women.

    And I’m glad you’ve cut down that woman for being anti-feminist, because it can’t be sexist if not all women agree. Besides, if we start calling everything sexist – like that girl did – how will men know when real sexism comes along? What if men are so confused by all the allegations of sexism that they start behaving in sexist ways? –Not that any man would, that era is over! No, clearly our metric of sexist behavior should hinge on getting all women on board. If it doesn’t bother you, it doesn’t bother any of us. That you have boobs clearly renders her feelings and her claim illegitimate. Thank you boobs!!

    Also, I’m glad that you pointed out that her list sent women’s rights back to the stone ages. There’s no way we can defeat sexism if we think things are sexist – and look at the result! During my morning walk today, a man started driving really slow beside me, making little kissy noises – and I just know it was because of that fucking blog post! I hope she realizes what she did…

    I’m also really glad that you, like me, don’t bitch and whine and complain about being a minority or being a girl. Every time one of these so-called feminists pipes up with the “ohh, eating disorder rates are rising” or “ohh, we’re only making 80 cents to a man’s dollar” or “ohh, women are 51% of the population but they only make up but are vastly under-represented in government” I’m all SHUT UP! You have the right to vote, to work, to have your very own savings account – do you honestly want the right to be discontent? If we’re happy, why aren’t they? Clearly our happiness proves they should be happy too! How close do we have to get to gender equality before there’s some fucking gratitude up in here?! On top of that, I think we can both agree that the Internet is a completely inappropriate venue for ranting, kvetching, and malcontent of any kind – shut up and smile is my motto! Besides, we all know that bringing up something as sexist just means you’re a pussy.

    Also, I’m glad you brought up Obama. Obama never brought up his race, especially not in his best-selling book “Dreams from My Father: A Story of Race and Inheritance” or all his speeches and talks with communities of colour. I don’t think it came up once! And Hilary Clinton definitely didn’t go around yapping about how she’s female – in fact, I thought she was a man up until last Tuesday! (oops) Overall, it’s more than obvious that women (and black people, and especially black women people) should shut up about themselves, because they’re infringing on our space to talk about how awesome it is to be us, and besides, their complaints are obviously totally illegitimate – which proves definitively that they are just whining idly, which we really ought to nip in the bud. They are making women look bad with their greedy unhappiness – the best thing for feminism is if we all appear as utterly joyous as possible, because god! Who wants to be seen as whiny?

    Anyway, I’m more glad than anything that you did a bacon remix of her list, because that really gets the guys on our side, and that’s all we wanted all along, right? Girlpower!!

    -d

    PS> Should it be pastrami or tuna, honey?

    • serena says:

      I cannot wait to see Elidet attempt to respond to this. Effing amazing.

    • serena says:

      @dipperwell: I cannot wait for Elidet to attempt to respond to this masterpiece. Effing amazing.

      • dipperwell says:

        Elidet – I absolutely agree. I think we’re on the same page here. Jen, a self-proclaimed feminist, should definitely fight the battles you think are worthy because clearly her own judgment has by hit by PMS or chick hormones or something. I particularly don’t think it’s valid for her to suggest that something is sexist unless it’s the most sexist thing she can find, (Rock of love!! there is NO way Digg is more relevant to her than Rock of love!!) because if feminists don’t really line our their priorities here and choose the ones that are pressing to you and me, the whole movement will go to shit, and I know there’s nothing that you or I care about more than the well-being of her feminist movement.

        Also, I think it’s important to note here that Jen wasn’t just writing a blog post about an observation she thinks she had (emphasis on “thinks!”) she was clearly implying that she is going to be fighting Digg, just like you said, and I would not be the least surprised if she has already set up a Facebook group boycotting it. I totally agree with you that this mad war she is waging is not worth it!! And I wish she had decided to just write a blog post instead, which would have been a more appropriate measure.

        And I am WITH YOU 100% – I can’t emphasize that enough – that Digg being racist and homophobic definitely means it isn’t sexist and any sexism that does bubble up doesn’t matter. I am frustrated that no one else understands your logic – the more a site hates on gays and black people, the better women should feel about it. Because racism sort of cancels out sexism. I have a personal analogy to this, actually – I broke my leg last year, and the surgery to put a pin in it was going to be $2000 (wtf?!) so I broke my arm too and now I feel much better about the leg because now, like, being broken is normal instead of the exception. It works!! You should try it!!

        Also, you misunderstand me – I definitely am not trying to make you think sexism has taken place on Digg or whatever – I think it’s obvious to everyone (except Jen, that little pussy!!) that if it hasn’t happened to you, it hasn’t happened to them, because you are represent all Diggers With Boobs. Actually I would love to hear more of your awesome empowering thoughts about women because they keep telling me their experiences (typical talk-your-ear-off women, right?) and I want to know which ones are lies, so could you tell me – is it true that my friend Sally got a headache yesterday?? If you didn’t get a headache yesterday I’ll know that she lied and I can totally get on her case for pussying out of partying with me…

        And most important I give you an A++ for calling out those girls for what they are, sissies. Having an objection to something is something is such a sissy thing, the strongest women shut up and smile.

        Don’t you wish they all had penises!! I do.

    • elidet says:

      Look, lady, I’m a girl and I moved on. You are trying to make me a victim of something I am not.

      The article was based on whether or not DIGG was sexist, not the whole world. Get it? Digg. Did you RTFA?

      I just think digg was not a battle some self-proclaimed feminist should be fighting. Was it worth it?

      No.

      We were discussing DIGG, and if she really was a feminist, she should be fighting the crap that’s on tv like that rock of love show where the has been rocker lives with 20 girls with no self respect.

      She shouldn’t be arguing on digg.

      I’m a girl and I’m telling you digg is not more sexist than it is racist than it is homophobe. Everything and nothing is offensive on digg. I like how you are trying to make me believe it exists when I’ve been on there and this is the first time I came out as a girl on digg.

      You should have been there when they told MakiMaki that his place was submitting articles and not commenting because his comments sucked. Did he cry over it?

      You girls are a bunch of sissies.

      • serena says:

        Who the hell are you to decide what she (as a woman, and as a feminist- fuck your “self-proclaimed” bullshit) has the right to talk about?
        The fact that you think Digg should be above such examination is, for lack of a kinder word, idiotic. You do not get to decide what is and is not sexist or what should or should not be scrutinized as such.
        By the way, Dipperwell roundly schooled your ass. You would be wise to just move on and admit defeat.
        And seriously, “cry over it”? “You girls are a bunch of sissies”? How old are you, really? You look about 14 in your icon and I truly hope that is the case. Maybe you will have time to grow out of these sophomoric convictions.

        • rosie says:

          Elidet is a girl, she has a right to say if she thinks digg is sexist or not. She is, after all, a girl who uses digg. Jen is not a frequent user. She’s a moron.

  28. serena says:

    Elidet,
    Jen said multiple times that it wasn’t about the number of Diggs she got. I’ve been bothered numerous times by the horrifying examples of misogyny and sexism exhibited on forums like Digg; as Jen said, so has she. She took a personal experience (the comments her article received) and wrote about it. It may make her easier to attack (ie “quit whining about how few diggs you got”), but it also allows her to expound on a general problem from a personal point of view. I find it disheartening that you can’t seem to understand that.
    When you describe the “typical” woman as whiney, you come across as an idiot who is crossing her fingers that the “cool boys” will like her. I doubt that’s the image you’re going for. You may not experience sexism on the internet or in your daily life, but please do not be so self-centered and asinine as to think that means sexism is a non-issue.
    As a final note, drawing attention to the rampant misogyny of forums is not asking for “pity from the guys.” It disturbs me that you seem to think so.

  29. Jen says:

    Quite amused by the fuss I’ve caused you all.

    Here’s the summary of the whole thing if you care to find out – I actually even got a nice apology from a Digg user who didn’t mean to be so sexist.

    http://womensrights.change.org/blog/view/digg_community_responds_to_changeorg_cr_efforts

  30. [...] within the blogosphere – including Jezebel, Feministing and Real Clear Politics. Oh yeah, and a counter argument to my post, with a side of [...]

  31. nimh says:

    Feminism was meant as a way to be treated equally, and if you want to play with the boys, then you have to play how boys play.

    I wasnt impressed with Jen’s Top 10, and even less with her article about sexism on Digg, which included a number of phallacies. But she is right in her comment here. This is a contradiction. Being treated equally != “having to play how boys play.” By definition those things are in conflict with each other.

    I mean, isn’t that the point right there? If on Digg, the only way to participate is by “playing how boys play”, then it’s not a space where equal rights can prosper. If the only way to be accepted in the community is by acting like a boy, and otherwise you get slammed, then it’s a sexist community.

    This applies on a broader scale as well, btw. Digg may be an irrelevant enough backwater, and I would never have written an article about it myself. But the same logic you’re applying here is heard all too often about the arenas of politics and business. It’s a men’s arena, and so women should just be able to play ball the way men do, and not whine if they aren’t able or willing to and consequently get excluded.

    Well, as long as it’s a men’s world out there where it counts and they get to set the rules by which you are allowed to take part, there are no equal rights.

    (I’m a guy btw, just an older one who finds the aggressive teen posturing on Digg often tiresome, and who thinks it’s kind of a pity if girls decide that they have to act the same way in order to be accepted.)

  32. MK2 says:

    Why such women don’t build their own digg-like sites? Digg was built and grew up around this “boys club” culture to only later it has to be controlled and censored by those newcomers feminists.

    Why such people bent on controlling and censoring everything you *say*? Make your own “girls club” or “non girls club” or whatever and leave other people alone.

    Self-centered control freaks who want to control every thought, word, hobby, club or place existing in the world. Disgusting.

  33. dave says:

    To the people who commented about my “Digg is a machine” post berating me for ignoring the community aspect. Well that was the whole point. People use tools however they want to use tools. There is no barrier to entry, or gender bias with the use of Digg. It’s essentially completely democratic and open.

    If Jen or other feminists aren’t happy that the board has been taken over by sexists (from their point of view), they have the option of contributing more and balancing things out. The way to combat inequality is to convince those ‘offenders’ that their way of thinking is biased and offer them an alternative perspective that they themselves would rather maintain. Combative blanket statements don’t do anything to further dialog – they simply encourage argument. Maybe Digg is sexist. Or maybe feminists like Jen aren’t sufficiently articulate or don’t have a philosophy worth buying into. The point is Digg isn’t preventing a democratic open forum for the resolution of this concern or other concerns like it. And the resolution, like resolutions in any democratic process, is entirely dependent upon active involvement. That’s how it always is. Bitching about this simple fact of life doesn’t change it. And thus, all Jen’s stereotypical, impotent, whiny rant did was contribute to the perception that feminists have an incomplete, biased, sexist philosophy themselves. That’s great if your audience is a bunch of fascists or robots or fascist robots, but for the rest of us it’s a bit stale.

    • serena says:

      Oh my gosh, Dave! You are totally right! It’s that feminism isn’t compelling enough! That’s why little girls in Africa get their genitals mutilated and vaginal openings sewn shut- because feminist philosophy just isn’t worth buying into.
      Man, it all makes sense now. Now if only those fascist feminazi’s could see that and quit whining about the plight of women in the world. Gosh, why won’t those bitches just shut up?!

      ..You fucking imbecilic asshole.

      • elidet says:

        Serena:

        Damn, you girls are still talking about it?

        Once again, the question was “Is Digg Sexist?” and I said no.

        You are trying to bundle it in with the world being sexist. It’s not about the world or what happens in Africa. I was responding to Digg. Get it? Got it? Good.

        ps RTFA

        • serena says:

          The delightful part is that you continue to reply!

          You may not think Digg is sexist and that’s just fine. But I reiterate: Jen and I and a number of other women disagree. Again: it is not up to you to decide what should and should not be examined as sexist. You can disagree, but saying that a “real” feminist should be focusing on Rock of Love is patently retarded.

          Sexism is a worlwide phenomenon. That is why it is so important to attack it from myriad levels- including the sexism found on internet forums.

    • rosie says:

      @Dave
      Sexist! ha ha just kidding,Dave. I’m a girl on digg and I agree with you. If you were on digg, I’d digg ya up. I don’t think Jen understands what digg is. She thinks equal treatment means SPECIAL treatment. That’s not the attitude feminist had in mind. Or a list promoting Sex and the fucken City.

  34. rosie says:

    I think it’s funny serena keeps arguing. When you argue on the internet, even if you win, you’re still retarded. I’m only sorry I missed all the hoopla. I read your bulletins and that’s how I found this article.
    Elidet, thanks for writing such a witty post. It made me laugh. Jen even wrote responding to it again. I’ve been on digg since the beginning of this year and I too, have never felt the guys were sexist. Maybe it’s because I read the articles more than I read the comments and the hell pays attention to the idiotic comments? Jen needs a freaking life. Keep writing your blogs, Elidet, I enjoy reading them and you’re right, those girls are sissies. I don’t know where they got that everything is sexist when you pointed out you were just answering their question. I don’t know how many times you mentioned that this was meant to be sarcastic. I’m almost positive they have never heard of cracked either. Almost. LMAO. Rosie. ps Serena: for someone who’s telling others to grow up, you sure are a hypocrite.

  35. serena says:

    Aw that’s cute, Elidet! You’re pretending to be a commenter named “Rosie”! Maybe you’ll fool all those sissy girls who aren’t familiar with cracked.com. Because, you know, feminazi’s never have a sense of humor, am I right?

  36. MK2 says:

    @serena
    Uh Controlling other people speech and censoring it is NOT respect.
    It’s disgusting self-centered totalitarian thinking.

    You can:
    - Boycott the site.
    - Build your own website.
    - Participate and post your opinions and talk others through your posts.

    You can’t:
    - Force other people opinions.
    - Censor other people *speeches* by force.

    But some can’t accept that, what they want is to FORCE opinions and CENSOR speech. Face it; Such feminists are fascist militant control-freaks who don’t like to hear but their voice and will ALWAYS try to FORCE others. I hope you are not of this type as they are truly DISGUSTING.

  37. serena says:

    MK2, I do understand what you are saying, even if it seems like I might not. Censoring of any type is wrong. But what Jen was commenting on–what many people have noticed and commented on–is the troublingly misogynistic bent of internet forums and the wish and hope that it would change. Jen never demands in her post that such commenters be excommunicated or deleted, or even that their comments be moderated. In fact she does boycott those users, in a manner of speaking, by employing what she calls the “Motrin Moms” effect.
    Shock value words like “totalitarian,” “control,” and “censor” have no place here. Neither she, nor I, nor any of the other commenters bemoaning Digg’s sexism used them. So please, leave them out of your argument- it just makes you seem uninformed and willing to cater to the lowest common denominator to prove your (nonexistent) point.

  38. MK2 says:

    Not really, it’s reality even if you don’t want to see it. It happened and users were banned and the feminist retard was proud and praising the bans, and as this one she linked to user profiles to ban them. I’m not including you with such feminists (unless you want to include yourself), but *TOTALITARIAN* *CONTROL-FREAK* feminists who are bent on *CENSORING* are not fairy tales even if you don’t want to admit it for one reason or other [wonder why?].

  39. Digg ain’t sexy :) it’s not my type

  40. LM says:

    As a woman, I disagree with both the whiny feminist and the boastful anti-feminist. Yes, I want to be treated equally. No, I’m not at all offended when people think that just because I digg, I must be another guy. But I am offended by the way the woman drivers and “bitch make me a sandwich” comments get positively digged.
    If your feminism article is crappy (which most of them are), you shouldn’t get digged. But I do think it’s fair to complain that the general population of male diggers often make sexist comments because they assume all other diggers are men who agree with them.

  41. Jennifer says:

    Both of you are shining reasons as to why feminism hasn’t been taken seriously for years. Kudos, ladies. Kudos.

  42. Laurel says:

    If this clarifies things at all, I get offended at the “I don’t care what you’re saying just show us your tits” kind of comments the same way I get offended when someone says I should “go eat a dog” because I’m Asian. Sexist comments are more common than racist ones, but that doesn’t mean they’re any better.

    That said, I’m going to agree with Dave that feminists and anyone who feels discriminated against on Digg “have the option of contributing more and balancing things out.” If anyone feels that Digg is an important enough community to warrant that kind of effort, then rally your troops.

    I say this because as much as I hate “hate speech,” I hate censorship more since censorship can become suppression which can become “Hey, where did all my civil liberties go?”. (IOW, who gets to decide what’s offensive and where does it end? I’d like to keep the freedom to call an idiot and idiot.) Putting yourself online is a lot like walking through Central Park at night: sometimes you need a posse to back you up or you’re going to get brutalized. It’s unfortunate, but true.

    The idea of having rules to keep people in line to create a respectful conversation is okay, but I’d prefer that the community evolve itself instead.

© 2008 Pointless Banter - All Rights Reserved || Designed: E.Webscapes || Social Media Consulting: Comedy Central Sound